‘Saints Row’ Dev Says Reboot Disaster Caused By Poor Management, Lack Of Communication: “Everything Was Half-Cooked”
YouTuber ‘mrsaintsgodzilla21’ has revealed a plethora of information on the troubled development of 2022’s Saints Row. Intended to be far different from the final DEI-approved flop that killed Volition Games, there was a plethora of cut features and mechanics that the developers wanted to implement — if not for technical issues, and executive meddling.
Saints Row mega-fan mrsaintsgodzilla21 has managed to visit Volition’s offices in the past — interviewing key staff. In one visit in 2019, he ended up being one of the first to learn they were working on what would become the 2022 reboot Saints Row.
In a recent video, now that his NDA has expired, the YouTuber revealed that he got to see a “vertical slice” at that time — a playable mock-up of a small part of the game intended to present the overall experience to publishers and investors. The community manager, the late Mike Watson, also revealed outlines for every mission in the game, including the entire story.
Along with his own account, mrsaintsgodzilla21 interviewed former Volition developers years later in an effort to learn how development went.
“I only hope this video will somewhat redeem the developers who actually wanted to make a good game, and that you’ll see how a studio could have the best intentions, just to have them squandered by incompetent people in power,” mrsaintsgodzilla21 opened.
Years after the failure of Agents of Mayhem led to questions about the Saints Row series’ future, leading mrsaintsgodzilla21 to request whether he could Volition like he had done before. Once there, the YouTuber was surprised to learn the existence of “Saints Row Cinco” — the original title for the game.
The YouTuber notes right from the off on a main menu and environmental scene that he was surprised to see how good the graphics looked. Executive Producer Jim Boone then explained what the game was going to be.
While the final game was partly despised from moving away from the series’ later ‘wackiness‘, even early on Boone said this clean-slate would have “no more wacky or over-the-top elements like demons or aliens.” This may be in response to the divisive reception to Saints Row IV, and Saints Row: Gat out of Hell.
Boone explained gangs were going to be the player’s main rivals once again, while they build their empire from the ground up. But to not alienate older fans, he explained they established a “20/80 rule,” which stipulated that 80% of the game would have a tone akin to Saints Row 2 while the remaining 20% would draw inspiration from Saints Row: The Third. A serious story, with absurd moments that didn’t detract from it.
Santo Illeso was still inspired by Las Vegas and cities with the “keep it weird” mottos like Austin and Portland. This would lead to unusual sights, and detail fans felt the city was lacking in The Third compared to prior games. It featured Agents of Mayhem‘s engine, 80% rebuilt for two years to feature mechanics fans would want; customization, co-op, and activities.
Boone said rather than the art, narrative, and development teams working apart then merging them together for the vertical slice, the whole team worked together “holistically.” Mrsaintsgodzilla21 had concerns at the time, feeling the developers had effectively started working on the full-game already.
A former anonymous developer later told him, “It was uh… nobody wanted to do it. Everything was half cooked but upstairs wanted an idea of game flow, art wanted to nail down a creative direction, narrative wanted to nail down a tone, design just wanted it to work, audio and VFX and UI were just trying to keep up. It was too early.”
Mrsaintsgodzilla21 explains how Associate Producer Kate Nelson played the slice’s mission, showing off new and returning mechanics. The Boss (the main character) didn’t resemble the one used in later marketing, even after being customized.
The mission plays out similarly to the Rescue Kevin mission in the final game, except the player rescues original Saints Row series character, Pierce. A far cry from the harsh backlash the game’s PR team gave fans who wanted the old Saints back.
A subsequent bar brawl revealed combat was a combination of Saints Row II and The Third — wild swinging, but a third hit being a take-down.
Shot enemies would eventually enter a stunned state — where a take down would recover a quarter of your health, the only way to do so. Mrsaintsgodzilla21 condemned that mechanic as “utterly moronic.” Otherwise, gunplay was “sound,” and foes weren’t bullet sponges (a common criticism of the final game). QTEs were also dramatically cut down — with the final game only featuring five.
An Idols member then hides in a porta-potty, which the boss hooks up to a car’s tether to drag around (something that can be done in the full game with cars and helicopters). The Boss learns they need to find another Idols member in a hot air balloon — another element intended to be a big part of the open-world gameplay.
Mrsaintsgodzilla21 couldn’t find out why they were removed, with only one developer adding, “I’m guessing they just went away when the Idols changed focus from frat party to anarchy party.”
The mission ends with the Boss driving their car off a ramp, flying to the balloon with the wingsuit — with Boone explaining it was for those who liked the superpowers of Saints Row IV. After a QTE fight with the Idols member, the vertical slice cuts to after the rescue of Pierce, where he is voiced by Arif S. Kinchen once again (rather than using a temporary actor).
The player is then whisked to Saints HQ — a location that would evolve as each rival gang was beaten. The plastic surgery businesses that allowed players to change their appearance in-game would be moved purely into the HQ.
This was something mrsaintsgodzilla21 felt was betraying “an iconic staple of the series” despite the convenience, but contrasted by the fact Volition wanted to bring back barber shops from the first game. In the final game, player customization can be done at almost any time via the player’s in-game phone.
Players would also have been able to customize not just the HQ, but once again have customizable Cribs (something not in the final game). They could choose exactly where to put decorations found in the world — either earned from activities and missions or bought at both furniture stores and the in-game phone.
Mrsaintsgodzilla21 said while there were multiple factors, customization being simplified “mostly came down to” memory limitations and issues with the engine.
Walking around a district, mrsaintsgodzilla21 felt it was the “most lively city Volition has made since Saints Row 2 Stilwater,” with NPCs making the world feel alive (the final game would be criticized for NPCs that barely reacted to the player due to bad AI).
Boone says the developers knew players liked to be rewarded for exploring, leading to hidden diversions, Easter eggs, and cosmetics being hidden all over. This included “dumpster diving,” a way to reward exploration with weapons and XP, and hidden diversions. In another example, after eating a burrito from a food vendor the Boss burst into flame for the Human Torch activity (cut from Saints Row II).
“That was such an insane deep cut that this was truly the moment I felt Saints Row was back,” mrsaintsgodzilla21 praised.
Player could also explore a fort with historic markers revealing lore. They would learn of a general who hid gold, and when found players can decorate their HQ and cribs with gold bars. However, mrsaintsgodzilla21 later learned it was heavily toned down due to publishers hating time and resources being spent on content most players wouldn’t see.
In the final game, this became the Hidden History side objective, which mrsaintsgodzilla21 described as “tedious.” He also denied that he was the voice actor for the historic marker narrator, despite insiders previously claiming otherwise.
After the vertical slice, a trailer showed a wingsuit racing mode up to a dam amid hot air balloons — a faster version of Skyblazing from The Third’s Genkibowl DLC.
Throughout the vertical slice, mrsaintsgodzilla21 also saw other new features, such as what the smartphone could do. Along with a proper selfie mode and showing the time of day to compliment the day/night cycle, players could use it to access “Criminal Ventures.” These acted like the activities in prior games.
Players could acquire territory, and choose the business to place there. They were varied — from realistic to over-the-top — letting players choose the tone they wanted for the city. These businesses offered income, unique missions, rewards, and affected the surrounding area.
For example, NPCs spawning near a nuclear waste disposal plant would be mutated with enlarged or extra limbs (inspired by the Rifts in Saints Row IV). In the full release, NPCs near the disposal plant would simply glow green.
Another change was how in the final game players delivered waste to the plant with almost no interference. In the slice, players took the waste from the plant to illegally dump, with police and environmentalists trying to stop them and risk damaging the barrels in the process. Mrsaintsgodzilla21 had no answer as to why they were cut.
Another Criminal Venture was the Planet Saints merch stores, which could also become the Saints Towers — where players could resupply and take off from the top with aircraft or wingsuits.
Once players seized territory, they could declare ‘Proclamations.’ A cut feature from Agents of Mayhem, players could declare a law for that territory. These could cause aesthetical changes, such as increasing the kinds of NPCs that spawn (streakers, pimps and prostitutes, furrys, etc.), and combine with the Venture affects (such as the aforementioned mutation).
Others would affect gameplay, such as allowing angered NPCs to challenge you to a Wild West quick-draw duel. Another Proclamation of note would have allowed players to record their voice, and have NPCs repeat it in a friends’ game, even categorized by generic lines or in reaction to various situations.
Mrsaintsgodzilla21 said he “can’t even begin to imagine how abused this system would have been,” and wasn’t surprised it was cut by Deep Silver “undoubtedly” to avoid controversy. Ultimately only five Proclamations were “fully finished” before the entire mechanic was scrapped due to its scale.
Another cut element was go kart racing, though this survives within a mission in the final game.
The slice also showed three skill trees; Muscle, Fame, and Wealth (each mirroring a rival gang’s means and motives). The player’s actions would get XP for each — such as combat that give XP for Muscle.
The perks players could unlock could also be toggled and interchangeable. Remnants of this in the final game include boosting in the wingsuit, which became unlockable content in the Heist & Hazardous DLC.
Another former perk is where players shove a live grenade down the pants of an enemy and throw them. That was originally a Muscle skill players could do when using a human shield. Despite the game being M-Rated, Deep Silver cut human shields as it was too violent.
It should be noted in prior games, players could use civilians as human shields, and execute them.
In a similar vein, an idea dropped for being “too graphic” was a portable woodchipper as a weapon, sucking up foes and spraying gore out the back — though mrgodzilla21 didn’t explicitly state this was due to higher ups, and this was revealed when discussing weapon concepts that were dropped for being too ridiculous with Boone.
Character customization was also intended to be far more complex than it was in the final game. Originally, it featured layered clothing, socks (not present since 2009), RGB sliders for colors, and “styles” to change clothing’s patterns and materials.
Physical customization utilized grids for individual features rather than sliders, akin to APB: Reloaded. It also featured selectable genders, unlike the final game, with Nelson changing the boss from a man into a blond female during the slice.
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Clothing styles were dropped and physical customization were restricted due to memory issues — which also affected facial animations, resulting in presets for faces taking prominence.
After the forty minute presentation, mrsaintsgodzilla21 felt “the game looked amazing, and it seemed like they really attempted to check-off nearly every fan request for the last eight years.” Boone agreed, and said they had attempted to appease all kinds of fans.
Watson also showed mrsaintsgodzilla21 concept art, and “for the most part” it did end up in game. The elements that did differ included the desert regions, originally meant to be larger and more distinct (with differing levels of flora).
Instead, the team prioritized fleshing out the cities — resulting in smaller deserts and less work making them unique. Creative Director Brian Trafocante reportedly wanted the game to look breathtaking, due to his past in environmental art. However, other devs would later say this focus was to the detriment to other aspects of the game.
The concept art also revealed how the early stages of the Saints and other gangs. In terms of gameplay, the concept art revealed the Saints would also have had a customizable dog as a homie and serving as the gang’s mascot.
Nonetheless, mrsaintsgodzilla21 explains Volition struggled to implement pets and animals in past games, and in the final games settled on the cat players only see in cutscenes. Two weeks after that decision, a developer managed to get quadrupeds working, which was utilized for the coyotes.
Another cut gameplay feature was born from Marshall being led by Atticus’ brother, Gideon. Eventually Gideon (or in later versions, Atticus) would be ousted from the company and become homeless.
Players could buy a mysterious drink off him (the “Hobo Juice” diversion) and wake up in a random location after drinking it. This was fully completed, but cut “due to poor management from incompetent higher-ups.”
Yet another concept thrown to the cutting room floor was how to implement cheats. Originally, the Hummingbird Codex from the story was so desired because it led to a “treasure.” This would play out in end-game content; following clues to the middle of the desert where a pink Pyramid with Professor Genki’s face would rise out of the ground.
Inside, players could enter codes found scattered through the world to unlock cheats to activate in New Game+, another feature along with replayable cutscenes and missions. Mrsaintgodzilla21 has no idea why these were cut.
All of the above is merely part of mrsaintsgodzilla21’s video, as he went in depth about earlier version’s of the game’s story and cast (you can find our report soon). It’s also the first video, with more cut content, how plans for the Saints Row series changed, and more set to be revealed soon.
