‘Saints Row’ Dev Claims THQ Nordic Threw Out Original Plots, Forced Changes To “Misogynistic” Dialogue
A YouTuber has revealed initial plans for the Saints Row reboot, including its initial story. They also exposed THQ Nordic and Deep Silver’s meddling, such as forbidding the main character from calling a woman a b—h in a heated argument due to being “misogynistic,” despite being an M Rated game based around criminal gangs.
Per our prior report, YouTuber and Saints Row series mega fan mrsaintsgodzilla21 revealed a bevy of information about the 2022 reboot. His NDA from a 2019 visit to Volition Games now cleared, combined with what he learned from developers interviewed years later, he revealed the details on the “Saints Row We Never Got,” and why things changed.
Gameplay elements from the 2019 vertical slice were dropped or scaled down, usually due to technical limitations or at the demand of publisher Deep Silver; such as if a mechanic was too thematically dark, or would take away development time and resources better spent on features all players would experience.
In that vertical slice, Pierce from the original series was also present, voiced by Arif S. Kinchen once again (rather than a temporary actor).
After the forty minute presentation, mrsaintsgodzilla21 felt “the game looked amazing, and it seemed like they really attempted to check-off nearly every fan request for the last eight years.” Executive Producer Jim Boone agreed, and said they had attempted to appease all kinds of fans.
Mrsaintsgodzilla21 then expressed his surprise Kinchen was involved in a vertical slice.
This led to those in attendance glancing at one another, explaining in 2019 that it had recently been decided the old Saints would be cut for a new cast. Kinchen was one of “the very few” voice actors for returning Saints Row characters that nearly finished all their lines before their characters were cut.
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Mrsaintsgodzilla21 learned that there were attempts to bring in Kinchen as another character- a DJ, a building manager, or an Idols boss- but “the timing never worked out.” Some of Kinchen’s lines as Pierce can still be found in the game’s files, such as a radio advert for Planet Saints.
The YouTuber was conflicted at the time, especially since in 2018 the late Mike Watson (community manager) had told him in confidence he was designing a mission for the then-unknown game that was “something that desperately needs to get resolved.”
Mrsaintsgodzilla21 believed this would have let players get revenge on Dex, as Watson had tried to do so with Gat out of Hell. Watson was “mortified” to see how thus was implemented in that game (repeatedly killing a weak enemy over and over again, guarded by increasingly better foes).
In a lunch after the presentation, Boone asked the YouTuber how fans would react to the old Saints not coming back. Mrsaintsgodzilla21 said it would be “a hard sell.” Boone also asked how he’d handle Easter eggs and references to the old Saints.
Watson also showed mrsaintsgodzilla21 concept art after the presentation, and “for the most part” the elements therein did end up in game. In part, it revealed the early stages of the Saints and other gangs. The Idols were still a fraternity-turned-cult, but with an Egyptian motif rather than purely anarchist. They were led by a pair of siblings claiming to be reborn Pharaohs.
One writer pushed for the idea to imply they were in an incestuous relationship, before being “technically blacklisted” from the gaming industry for reasons mrsaintsgodzilla21 “cannot and will not discuss” in his video.
In the final game, the Idols are led by “The Collective,” six high ranking members who have abandoned their identities and names in favor of Daft Punk style helmets — far less memorable to mrsaintsgodzilla21.
Along with Idols and Los Panteros, the concept art stage revealed the last rival gang would have been the Ultor Corporation from Saints Row II (rather than Marshall Defense Industries). At some point it was decided fighting a gang players had already dealt with before wouldn’t have been as interesting.
The concept was changed to the returning Masako faction, this time a private security organization rather than a private military. Though some models for their members are in the game’s files, this was changed once again as it “wasn’t working.”
Using the ’20/80 rule’ Boone previously discussed (80% of the game having a tone akin to Saints Row 2, 20% Saints Row: The Third), Marshall came from combing 80% Ultor’s themes, 20% of STAG, and some “country twang.” They would have also had the returning VTOL and Specter vehicles, reworked to be less “sci-fi.”
In the final game, the Specter became the MDI77B, but is incapable of flying into the sky.
Another change in the early stages was The Nahualli being a Saint — a “badass” akin to Johnny Gat — before betraying the gang. Rather than trying to overthrow just the boss, The Nahualli was going to kill the boss and the lieutenants. His design also had a serial-killer vibe before being toned down.
During the 2019 visit, Watson shared outlines for every mission in the game; the entire story for “Saints Row Cinco” as it was known at the time. Later mrsaintsgodzilla21 would learn of earlier versions of that story.
In 2017 — when full production began — the story was intended to retcon Saints Row 4, and a soft-reboot of The Third. Gat would still be alive, and some inciting incident would send the Saints from Steelport to Santo Illeso for a gang war. Certain moments were similar to the full game, but others had major differences.
While things were going well, this changed after THQ Nordic acquired Deep Silver (2018), and they “flat-out” rejected the story. Mrsaintgodzilla21 mentions he was wrong to consider publisher Deep Silver “the main villain in the fall of Saints Row.”
Eight revisions later, the next story presented still kept the old Saints (and Watson’s Dex mission), but added the Boss’ mother as a character.
She was customizable, and set to marry real estate agent turned Mayor John Blande. He was intended to be voiced by the late Bob Saget, being a corrupt politician and businessman akin to Richard Hughes and Dane Vogel in past games.
Along with playing up the “son hates stepdad” trope, Blande was going to be the final boss, where the player crashes a parade honoring him, and fights a giant robot gorilla on a parade float. Other versions had the player kill Blande in a retirement home on his birthday.
The character did appear as an NPC in the final game- attempting to demolition the church before the Saints stop him.
The second story was also rejected by THQ Nordic. Now panicked, Boone felt he needed to hire a writer who worked on the series before- choosing series writer Steve Jaros. Most staff were in the dark, until the writers came back after a Christmas vacation and learned he had rewritten the entire story.
Jaros’ contract ensured his word “became gospel.” He had full creative control of the story, and forbid not just criticism from other writers, but from them even speaking to him. That latter element was from “higher-ups” fearing a third rejection, and seemingly went both ways.
Mrsaintsgodzilla21 reports Jaros reached out to writers after Saints Row launched, “sharing his grief” that he couldn’t workshop with them. The YouTuber compares Jaros to George Lucas- someone with great ideas but when surrounded by “yes men” they “fumble the ball.”
Volition told the writers to flesh out Jaros’ ideas. THQ Nordic approved of Jaros’ concept for a true reboot, being the late 2019 story as mrsaintsgodzilla was told about. Several story beats in the final game are also present here, but there are differences therein.
Instead of opening on the Boss being buried alive (as the final game is), they start during a Marshall raid busting a Panteros drug deal. While their boss flees, their lieutenant- The Nahualli- was captured.
The Boss then goes back to their apartment (without being stiffed out of their performance bonus like the full game)- with their roommates being Gat, Aisha, Pierce, and Shaundi. Each were affiliated with other gangs- such as Gat being part of the Idols.
While the final story had the characters whining about student debt and the Loan Shark mission at this point, the 2019 story had players stop a Panteros drug convoy, along with obtaining the Hummingbird Codex. Atticus orders the Boss to protect the Codex at the museum, but it’s stolen by the Idols.
The Boss is then fired, and after a montage of them moping, they decide to form the Saints.
The Boss performs various activities to gain attention for recruits and build their gang. One moment would have had an NPC in a coffin being dragged by a tether for information, but this was cut for being “too dark” despite being completed.
The Idols attempt to kidnap the Boss and Pierce, leading to the mission from the vertical slice, similar to the Rescue Kevin mission in the final game. The Boss retaliates by winning a wingsuit race set up by the Idols, costing them sponsors.
The gang realizing they need someone with experience, and decide to attempt to break The Nahualli out of the Marshalls’ prison.
True to early concepts, one scene would have had The Nahualli kill a corridor full of officers with just a knife. He then showed the Saints the ropes (with none of the “business training crap” as seen in the full game).
As Los Panteros are trouncing the Idols, they team up with the Saints to take down their boss Sergio. This is seen in the train heist mission in the final game, but all of the gangs would be fighting the Marshalls, and the player would be jumping between different trains and vehicles to keep up, such as the then-flying hover bike flying around the train.
After this, Atticus ousts his brother from Marshall (a character that owned the company in this version of the story), and the Saints finish off the Idols, recovering the Hummingbird Codex to unlock cheats for the player.
The Marshalls now declare all-out war on the Saints. Myra offers to help the Saints to help oust Atticus from the company by leaking useful information. This includes being able to blackmail Gwen over being a LARPer.
The LARP faction was a one-mission joke enemy faction cut from DLC for Agents of Mayhem– failing to harm you while you blasted them away. In the full game, players have to participate in the LARP, where they don’t actually harm anyone.
Gwen reveals the location of a Marshall weapons depot, and gets fired after it is destroyed, but joins the Saints.
Myra continues to leak information until Atticus is voted out of the company. At that stage of development, it was undecided how hostile Myra would have been to the Saints, though one piece of concept art shows (from a first-person perspective) the Boss being thrown out of the Marshall’s office window with Myra seemingly in command.
The final mission details were still being worked out, and surviving elements can be seen in the final game.
In the 2019 version, The Nahualli meets the Boss and confesses his intent to take over, killing them and the lieutenants. Drugging or knocking the Boss out, leaving them “between life and death,” it was Volition’s version of the Voss’ dream boss battle from Far Cry 3.
This would suggest the battle would have taken place while the Boss was in their dream-like/deluded state. Mrsaintgodzilla21 revealed earlier versions of the sequence had more surreal imagery, such a approaching a door in the middle of a lake.
In the final game, the Nahualli attempts to usurp the Boss, and even force the lieutenants to become his friends- having gone from a lone wolf to having a psychotic desire to have the Boss’ successes and friendship, even trying to artificially recreate the camaraderie they had with the other Saints.
The near-dead Boss hallucinates their friends blaming them for all that went wrong, before ending up in a giant colorful board game (that eventually turns spooky). They then crawl out of the ground, and track down their friends and the Nahualli to save the day.
Lamenting that the 2019 version was far superior to the final story, mrgodzilla21 explains the more “baffling” decisions came during the COVID-19 pandemic. Jaros’ contract was complete, and he left notes for the writing team to fulfill.
This included the “demand” of introducing the new cast of Saints akin to a sitcom- a scene that set a poor tone and destroyed any good will with fans right out the gate. “You almost have to wonder if he is purposely sabotaging the company,” mrgodzilla21 muses.
The only element the team managed to change from Jaros’ story- taking the entire studio objecting to higher-ups to do so- was the Saint Neenah being a dumb bimbo “the other characters would walk over.” With notes given to Jaros, she became an art student.
The final game also has her as a having a deep love of cars and art (the latter following her dreams per her dying mother’s wishes), and after failing to even get entry-level positions at museums, fell in with Los Panteros.
Late 2019 saw the 20/80 rule changed to “80% Grounded, 20% Silly,” then added “10% absurd” to allow more outlandish ideas- which carried over to the story. Nonetheless, THQ Nordic and Deep Silver had “heavy restrictions” on what characters could say, despite the M Rating.
One example was with the Boss’s rant after not getting a performance bonus. The writers were told the Boss couldn’t say anything negative about Gwen (a black female character), and especially not call her a b—h. “Even if the lines were written for the female boss, it’d be far too misogynistic,” mrsaintsgodzilla21 recounts being told.
As expected for a game based on gang culture, mrsaintsgodzilla21 then highlights how often that word was used in prior games.
Multiple attempts were shot down by Deep Silver, with them compromising with the boss raving to themselves and saying “balls” in increasingly verbose and bizarre ways. “The horse testes rant” was so poorly received, it was removed in a later update.
The update also seemingly attempted to amend poorly received story elements in the intro, and also cut down on the swearing.
The writers also despised the ending where the Saints sing Love Shack, an idea so late that it was part of the day one patch. A producer said they felt the game needed an ending like Saints Row 4, and so it was tied into the recurring joke about karaoke through the story.
Writers were also forbidden from attending voice recording sessions, despite it being standard practice for them to sit in to rework lines that aren’t working. More than just dictating control over the game’s tone, mrsaintsgodzilla21 reports “two producers were in a d–k-swinging contest,” leading to one of them to flex their authority with that order.
Mrsaintsgodzilla21 promises a second video, which will reveal what would have been plans for the game and series’ future.
