In the shared opinion of both former DCEU helmsman Zack Snyder and The Dark Knight comic book creator Frank Miller, between both Superman and Batman, the latter – despite his brooding and black-clothed nature – is actually the “happier character”.
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The two ‘edgier’ DC creators weighed in on the differing world outlooks of The World’s Finest during a one-on-one interview given by Miller to Snyder for the 2024 edition of Inverse’s annual ‘Superhero Issue’.
Serving as the interview’s host by way of his role as the issue’s guest editor, after a brief reflection on Miller’s comic book beginnings and a brief discussion on Snyder’s ‘superheroes stories are modern day mythology‘ take, the filmmaker turned the conversation to the topic of his guest’s work on his favorite Batman comic book – as evidenced by its influence on his own cinematic take on the DC pantheon – The Dark Knight Returns.
“The Dark Knight Returns is often credited with revolutionizing how Batman is perceived,” began Snyder. “But also my takeaway from Dark Knight Returns is exactly the same as you just stated it. Some people would say it’s deconstruction, and I understand that you might say that, but for me it was restorative. I’m like: That’s my Batman. The Batman I want to see is that Batman, not the bullshit Batman who’s a joke.”
Following this lengthy wind-up, the director then asked, “What were your key influences when creating a darker, older, more psychologically complex Batman?”, to which Miller admitted that the biggest influence on his iconic work was “the notorious old TV show, the one with Adam West and Burt Ward.”
“I mean, that was a goof,” said the veteran comic book creator. “It was basically a snide take on stuff that I remember that I absolutely loved. I loved the comic book characters and the TV show was constantly telling you how stupid the comic book was.”
“Yeah,” replied Snyder. “Because it was counterculture against authority and they sort of saw Batman as the man. And so I just felt like they were making the man out to be sort of an idiot.”
“So, without question,” said Miller, “I was rejecting that damn show more than anything when I did Dark Knight Returns.”
From there, prompted by Snyder’s noting of how “One of the things you do in Dark Knight Returns with the voiceover, in the sort of very specific language that he uses in combat and how he analyzes the combat that he’s in, you go like, “OK, this guy is 100% more complicated in his combat style even, than you you can imagine,'” Miller explained his view of The Dark Knight by comparing him to The Man of Steel.
“I look at Batman as the self-made superhero,” explained the Sin City creator. “Bruce Wayne made himself Batman by studying, training, and exploring. Extraordinary feats come easily to Superman. He can fly and then the rest. I mean, just in terms of Superman, it’s like you think you can do it. He can fly for god’s sake. Whereas Batman needs a godd–ncar. I enjoy an effort.”
“The one thing I really loved about the way you did Superman also was, he’s sort of a tool of the U.S. government, but the Superman also in your version is self-aware,” he continued. “He knows what he’s doing. Because everyone’s like, “Oh, he’s like a big boy scout.” Well, it’s like, no, he understands the political complexity of the whole thing, and he’s just done the math and goes, “Look, this is the only way we are able to exist is if we do it this way.”
“Superman is an apologia worrywart and he’s concerned with keeping the world from blowing itself up,” Miller further asserted. “Batman’s this Dionysian character who’s out for blood, and they’re perfect opposites in that Batman is the reckless ego and Superman is the fearful superego.”
Meeting his guest’s explanation with admiration, Snyder replied, “That’s cool. I really love it, because I love that Superman is in charge of keeping this… In a lot of ways, the children are tearing the preschool down, they’re setting it on fire, and they’re out of their minds, and he’s really just trying to wrangle us so we don’t kill ourselves and Batman’s just like, ‘No, that’s what it is to be alive,’ you know? That’s cool.”
This comparison in mind, Miller then declared, “Batman is the happier character,” to which Snyder agreed, “100%. Yeah! 100%.”
Drawing his thoughts on the Batman miniseries to a close, the writer and artist ultimately asserted, “I wanted to abolish the pouty Batman.”
